Posts by Doug Mason

4

Has anyone read this book by Boyer?

by Doug Mason in

has anyone read: boyer, when time shall be no more.

prophecy belief in modern american culture?.

although it was written in 1994, it sounds interesting, and i would like to know what others think of it.. https://www.amazon.com.au/when-time-shall-be-more/dp/0674951298 (i reckon there is a spelling error in amazon's summary, where godas should read as god's).. thanks, doug.

Doug Mason

Thanks all,

I have now managed to find a copy at less than $10 from Thriftbooks. Much better price than other places.

Doug

4

Has anyone read this book by Boyer?

by Doug Mason in

has anyone read: boyer, when time shall be no more.

prophecy belief in modern american culture?.

although it was written in 1994, it sounds interesting, and i would like to know what others think of it.. https://www.amazon.com.au/when-time-shall-be-more/dp/0674951298 (i reckon there is a spelling error in amazon's summary, where godas should read as god's).. thanks, doug.

Doug Mason

Has anyone read: Boyer, When Time Shall Be No More. Prophecy Belief in Modern American Culture?

Although it was written in 1994, it sounds interesting, and I would like to know what others think of it.

https://www.amazon.com.au/When-Time-Shall-Be-More/dp/0674951298 (I reckon there is a spelling error in Amazon's summary, where Godas should read as God's).

Thanks, Doug

25

Zoroaster spoke thus

by Doug Mason in

the following is from: cosmos, chaos and the world to come (pp.

222-224), norman cohn.

yale university press.

Doug Mason

Thank you truth_b_known.

The more I look, the more I discover, the more I am amazed.

Thank you for the link.

Doug

25

Zoroaster spoke thus

by Doug Mason in

the following is from: cosmos, chaos and the world to come (pp.

222-224), norman cohn.

yale university press.

Doug Mason

That's quite correct. Just Google for daeva. The Jews' and Christian's angelology derives similarly.

Most the the OT as we have it is the product of the 6th century BCE and later.

The "Judaism" of the "Old Testament" is not the Judaism of Jesus and his contemporaries. Much took place during the intervening centuries.

Doug

25

Zoroaster spoke thus

by Doug Mason in

the following is from: cosmos, chaos and the world to come (pp.

222-224), norman cohn.

yale university press.

Doug Mason

If anyone does purchase the book by Cohn, make sure you read the "Afterword" and especially the "Appendix".

Doug

25

Zoroaster spoke thus

by Doug Mason in

the following is from: cosmos, chaos and the world to come (pp.

222-224), norman cohn.

yale university press.

Doug Mason

Not a problem. I sent you a pm.

Doug

25

Zoroaster spoke thus

by Doug Mason in

the following is from: cosmos, chaos and the world to come (pp.

222-224), norman cohn.

yale university press.

Doug Mason

Search the www for sites that discuss the relationships, such as with: Zoroastrianism and Judaism.

This is interesting information from a Jewish Perspective:

http://collections.americanjewisharchives.org/ms/ms0603/ms0603.053.010.pdf

Doug

25

Zoroaster spoke thus

by Doug Mason in

the following is from: cosmos, chaos and the world to come (pp.

222-224), norman cohn.

yale university press.

Doug Mason

The following is a further passage from Cohn's book. It is a citation from a book written in 1791: (Volney: Jean Gaulnier, Un grand témoin de la Révolution et de l'Empire, Paris, 1959. The passage quoted from Les Ruines at pp. 143–6 of vol. 1 of the 1791 edition; trans, by N.C.)

[A Parsee – an adherent of Zoroastrianism – speaks:] Because if you study carefully the details of the laws, rites and precepts which are supposed to come directly from Moses, you will not find, in any article, a hint — even a tacit one — at what now constitutes the theological doctrine of the Jews and their offspring the Christians. Nowhere will you find a trace either of the immortality of the soul, or of an afterlife, or of hell or heaven, or of the revolt of the angel who is supposed to be the main author of the evils of mankind, etc. … So, added the Parsee priest, addressing the rabbis, it is only after the time of your first kings, that these ideas appear in your writers; and they appear only bit by bit — furtively at first, in accordance with the political relations which our fathers had with your ancestors; it is chiefly when your fathers, conquered and dispersed by the kings of Nineveh and Babylon, and brought up for three generations in succession in our country, that they assimilated the manners and opinions which until then had been rejected as contrary to their Law. When our king Cyrus had delivered them from slavery, their hearts warmed to us [Zoroastrians] out of gratitude; they became our imitators, our disciples, the most distinguished families, which the kings of Babylon had had educated in Chaldaean sciences, brought new ideas back to Jerusalem, foreign doctrines. …

The Pharisean or Parsee doctrines prevailed; and, modified according to your genius and the ideas which are peculiarly yours, it gave rise to a new sect. You expected a king who would restore your power, we announced a redeemer and saviour God; and from the combination of these ideas, your Essenes made the basis of Christianity; and Jews, Christians and Moslems, you are, in your system of spiritual bangs, nothing but the straying children of Zoroaster. (Cohn, 238-239)

32

Where have the NWT Bible changed verses to fit their theology ?

by smiddy3 in

i can think of two to start off with .

john 1:1 and luke 23:43 ,what others can you come up with ?.

Doug Mason

The Watchtower are amateurs when it comes to changing texts to suit their conclusions.

The text has undergone changes ever since the ink dried on the initial scroll. Scribes believed it was their duty to correct the text according to their current beliefs.

"Evidence of Editing: Growth and Change of Texts in the Hebrew Bible" provides examples in the Hebrew Scriptures, as does "Textual Criticism of the Hebrew Bible". The Essenes had two versions of Jeremiah concurrently.

There is no such thing as "THE" Bible. It is a library and there is a number of different collections. Just consider the number of books in the Ethiopian Bible and in the Orthodox Church's Bible.

No one ever voted that the Protestant list is correct.

Doug

25

Zoroaster spoke thus

by Doug Mason in

the following is from: cosmos, chaos and the world to come (pp.

222-224), norman cohn.

yale university press.

Doug Mason

The following is from: Cosmos, Chaos and the World to Come (pp. 222-224), Norman Cohn. Yale University Press. Kindle Edition.

To return to the Book of Daniel: even linguistically there is something odd about the work, for chapters 2 to 7 are written, not like the rest of the Old Testament in Hebrew, but in the language of the Iranian empire, Imperial Aramaic; and they contain no less than twenty Persian loan-words.

More importantly, in chapter 2 there is an image which has a close parallel in Zoroastrian lore: the statue in Nebuchadnezzar’s dream, with its head of gold, breast and arms of silver, belly and thighs of bronze, legs of iron, and feet part iron and part terracotta. In the Iranian apocalypse Zand i Vahman Yasht (meaning ‘Commentary on the hymn in praise of the god Vohu Manah’), Zoroaster dreams of a tree with branches of gold, silver, steel — and iron mixed with clay.

Nebuchadnezzar’s statue and Zoroaster’s tree both symbolise the same thing: a succession of four historical periods. The concept of four ages, symbolised respectively by gold, silver, bronze and iron is to be found already in an eighth-century Greek work, Hesiod’s Work and Days; but the addition of iron mixed with clay is an innovation, and such a curious one that it cannot be coincidental. Nor is there much doubt as to which is the original, Nebuchadnezzar’s statue or Zoroaster’s tree. Although the extant version of the Zand-i Vahman Yasht is — like all Zoroastrian texts — late, its origin is very ancient. Some scholars hold that it goes back to the time of Alexander the Great, others that it goes back further still. What is certain is that it is far older than the Book of Daniel.

That being so, one would expect the Iranian interpretation of the dream to be more natural, more persuasive than the Jewish. And so it is — especially the interpretation of ‘iron mixed with clay’. In the Zand-i Vahman Yasht the image symbolises the age when ‘non-Iranians will be mixed with Iranians’ — that is, when the good strong iron of Zoroastrian Iranians will be weakened by an influx of infidel foreigners. In Daniel ‘iron mixed with clay’ is interpreted as the time when Seleucid rule will be weakened by unsuccessful dynastic marriages — a forced comparison if ever there was one!

There is other, even more convincing evidence of Zoroastrian influence. When Nebuchanezzar asks Daniel to interpret this same dream, Daniel invokes ‘a God in heaven who reveals mysteries … mysteries of what is to be’ — and the word for ‘mysteries’ is rz. It is the very same word as is used in the Scrolls to denote the secret knowledge which the Qumran community treasured above all things: knowledge of God’s plan for the world, and especially for the end of time. And it is a Persian word, much used by Zoroastrians in precisely the same sense.